On today’s episode of the 5 Things podcast:
In the two weeks since Russia invaded Ukraine the UN says more than 2.5 million people have fled the country, making it Europe’s largest humanitarian crisis since World War II. Many have fled to neighboring countries with just the clothes on their backs, children and pets in tow. Many nations as well as individuals have stepped up to help by opening their hearts and homes. USA Today’s James Brown and USA TODAY’s Humankind reporter Zulekha Nathoo discuss how people around the world are stepping up to help the refugees from Ukraine.
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Hit play on the player above to hear the podcast and follow along with the transcript below. This transcript was automatically generated, and then edited for clarity in its current form. There may be some differences between the audio and the text.
James Brown: Hello, and welcome to 5 Things. I’m James Brown. It’s Sunday, March 13th, 2022. On Sundays, we do things a bit differently. Focusing on one topic instead of five. This week, we’re headed to Ukraine. The aftershocks of the Russian invasion of Ukraine are manyfold and felt everywhere. Things are volatile and it’s hard to keep up. It feels like anything could happen. At times like this, it’s important to step back and think about people. The human toll is obvious. More than a million refugees are flooding into many of Ukraine’s neighboring countries and other places around the world. Put yourself in their place. They don’t know when or if they’ll ever go home.
Zulekha Nathoo is a host and producer for USA Today’s Humankind. She’s based in Atlanta. Over the last few weeks, she’s been connecting with refugees and those trying to help them. The helpers, as Zulekha calls them, are going the extra mile, getting involved, some offering food and shelter for the displaced. We’ll hear from them and catch up with Zulekha over a video call in just a few moments. Zulekha Nathoo, welcome to 5 Things.
Zulekha Nathoo: Thank you. It’s nice to be here.
James Brown: So for those who don’t know, what is Humankind and what exactly do you guys do?
Zulekha Nathoo: Humankind tells uplifting stories. So stories that spark joy, they might make you shed a tear, but they remind you of people’s humanity. And that’s really at the heart of each piece. So we see time and time again, that people out there are really craving positive stories. And even when situations seem dire like what’s happening in Ukraine, we all always try to find the light, try to find the helpers and those small pockets of beauty wherever we can.
James Brown: So it’s hard to imagine pockets of beauty in a war zone. What have you seen so far and what’s it like communicating with people in those situations?
Zulekha Nathoo: Well, I think a lot of people go into kind of this extended fight or flight response in those types of situations. And often when reporters talk to people in the middle of any kind of trauma, they haven’t had time to process things yet. So I was actually really surprised at how calm and collected people I spoke with were considering what was happening around them. And what was so interesting was that the most emotional person I spoke with was actually in the US, a Ukrainian American man with family trying to flee Ukraine. And I think in a lot of cases, that sense of helplessness that he felt kind of just made him break down. Whereas I think some of those that are in the middle of it, trying to just focus their energy on surviving can’t necessarily process everything that’s happening around them at that moment.
James Brown: So they’re just worried about getting through the day.
Zulekha Nathoo: Yeah. I mean, that’s sort of the impression that I was getting. And I think even in my experience of talking to people in all kinds of different situations, like after a house fire or after they’ve lost a loved one, it takes time to metabolize what’s happened and process that trauma. And this has just been happening in a matter of weeks. So people, I don’t think have even really begun to understand the emotional effects on them.
James Brown: So how have people been helping refugees?
Zulekha Nathoo: Well, there’s been a lot of ways and I think one of the first high profile people on the ground was chef and humanitarian, José Andrés. He’s a Spanish American chef and he runs World Central Kitchen, which often goes to disasters and conflicts around the world from hurricanes to COVID emergency response. And he works with local restaurants and chefs and serves hot meals to people on the front lines and those in need. So in this case, he helps set up food trucks at the border between Poland and Ukraine in a town called Medyka. And so when Ukrainians came across the border, they’d get a free warm meal after traveling. And I mean, for some of them, that meant days of traveling.
And I spoke with Sam Bloch, who’s the director of field operations for World Central Kitchen. And when I was talking to him, he was on a popup shelter that was opening for refugees. It was just beginning to open up. And so behind him, you could see rows and rows of empty black reclining chairs. And those would be the beds for people coming in. And no one knew for how long that might be. And you could see people were just starting to file into this large hall. As we were speaking, World Central Kitchens’ food trucks were just outside. So some of them had just eaten. This would be the moment where they’d sort of begin to take a breath and see where they would be staying for days or weeks. And here’s how Sam described the state of refugees coming across the border from Ukraine.
Sam Bloch: And then a lot of them, once they enter Poland, some of them may have some friends or family that are waiting for them to take them someplace, but a lot of them really have just no idea where they’re going next. So it’s really nice to be able to, especially with how cold it is, to provide that hot meal. They just got out of Ukraine and to be greeted with that hot meal where they can sit down and kind of think for a minute around what is next for them. A lot of people are in that constant, stressful transition and to be able to take that minute, just an opportunity to sit down and feel like a human for a minute. And the more quality of the food, the more people realize that other people care about them.
Zulekha Nathoo: And Sam also told me that one of the refugees who had just come across from Ukraine saw what they were doing and said, “I’m a chef. Can I jump into a food truck? I want to help.” So I think there are so many people wanting to do something. And in Poland, as soon as this crisis began, people started organizing on Facebook groups to offer rides, houses, housing, clothes to people in need. And I was scrolling through the posts on one pretty large Facebook group and everything was very grassroots. Like you could see a post that would say, “I’m going to drive to the border and I can bring three people back to Warsaw, spread the word.” Or “I have a room in my home for two people. Pass it on.” And thousands and thousands of people had joined this group to try to help.
But another example that really stands out for me is a photo. You might have seen it that was circulating on social media and it was verified. It was taken by a photographer and it shows a row of empty strollers on a train platform. Polish mothers had left them there for Ukrainian families arriving with children. So those little acts of kindness can certainly go a long way in a situation like this.
James Brown: It was certainly a striking image. One that I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything close to just lines and lines of strollers.
Zulekha Nathoo: Yeah. I think sometimes it just takes that one photo for people to connect with it. And I think we’re seeing that as well. As an audience and people who are on the other side of the world, watching this happen, sometimes there are some really stunning and startling moments that make us realize what a humanitarian crisis this really is.
James Brown: Well, it’s not been completely easy even with the folks who are trying to help. From places like Poland, people get in. We heard of stories of other challenges on the border, especially if you aren’t white. What have you seen from those communities?
Zulekha Nathoo: Yeah. I mean, there’s been a lot of reports of African, Asian, Indian students facing additional barriers, trying to get across the border. And I spoke with a number of people about that, but one of the people in particular that really stood out for me was a medical student from Swaziland, Vukile Dlamini. And she was studying in the Ukrainian city of Vinnytsia before she had to flee. So she started helping other African students after enduring an arduous journey herself. And I’ll get to the helping part in a minute. But I just want to share with you part of her story, because I think it really explains why she wanted to help so much afterwards.
So when she first tried to leave, there were no buses available for her. She said they were prioritizing getting Ukrainians out first, a lot of the trains weren’t running anyways, buses weren’t arriving. So she gets together with other students from Swaziland and Zimbabwe and they scrounge whatever money they have together because they couldn’t really get to ATMs, banks weren’t just offering money. I mean, we saw the long lineups of people trying to access ATMs. And so they managed to get enough money to hire a bus. So they get on this bus, the bus drives them, she estimated about 12 miles away from the border with Romania. So now they got to get out, dragging their heavy luggage, walking and walking for hours, little to no food, extremely tired. It’s cold, it’s winter so it’s snowing. And when she gets to the border, there’s a separate line for Ukrainians and foreign nationals like herself. And here’s how Vukile describes what happened next at the border. Just listen to this.
Vukile Dlamini: It was really, really difficult to breathe there, because everyone is just pushing and squishing. You just imagine there’s thousands of other people pushing you and everything like that. And they’re pushing you and you have nowhere to go. And there’s also people in front of you as well so everyone’s just squished up and squished up there. Now I’m against the metallic gates and thousands of people are pressing against me. And then this Ukrainian soldier comes and he pushes the gate against me as well, making it even more difficult for me to breathe and everything. And I’m looking at him in the eye and everything. I’m telling him that, “Can you stop? Can you stop?” And then so he opened the gate for other girls. And then so I was like, you know what, it’s now or ever, I just squeezed myself through and everything.
Zulekha Nathoo: She told me that she thought she was going to die at that point, if she hadn’t gotten through. And if you can believe it, she’s only 19 years old. So eventually she gets home back to Swaziland. That’s where I was speaking with her so you might hear a rooster in the background and she realizes that she can’t leave other students behind. So she starts fundraising to get more students home that she knows are either still stuck in Ukraine or maybe having trouble at the border.
Vukile Dlamini: And then so now they were only able to leave because of the humanitarian corridors that were open now and everything. So we were able to also send them money so that they could pay some of the drivers to take them through to the borders. Some have already crossed over to Hungary. More are still leaving and everything like that. I’m so sorry. Do you hear the rooster?
Zulekha Nathoo: Yeah, I can hear it. That’s okay.
Vukile Dlamini: I’m so sorry. Africa. So we’re working to provide shelter, transportation, food, and as well as… What do you call this? Flight tickets. You know when they get out and everything. So I was doing my best to just try and help people reunite with their families because at the end of the day, we want everyone to come out. We’re not all out until we’re all out.
Zulekha Nathoo: And that’s what I mean when I say that people haven’t necessarily had the chance to process their trauma yet because she describes her experience to me so calmly and like she remembers every detail and she’s so grateful that she got home safely. But then when I asked her, “Are you really okay?” She told me she still hears the booming loud voices at the border when she goes to sleep at night. So she’s just trying to take it one day at a time, she said. And I think she maybe feels like helping other people is one way for her to begin to heal as well.
James Brown: It’s just startling. The image of being shoved up against a fence is just thankfully something I haven’t personally experienced myself. I would think that would stick with you, especially in such a tough time for a long period to come.
Zulekha Nathoo: Yeah. She said that there were a lot of people in line behind her who were fainting, who weren’t able to handle the crowds because the way she described it and the way that we’ve seen the situation at the border as well. I mean, this is thousands and thousands of people and I can only imagine what those kinds of desperate crowds can feel like when everyone is just trying to get home and get to safety.
James Brown: Well, what are people doing here in America to help the effort?
Zulekha Nathoo: I think there are a lot of things being done. I spoke with one Ukrainian American, Artur Kiulian. He’s a software developer. And I found his story quite interesting. I mentioned him earlier because he was the one who got quite emotional talking about his family that was still in Ukraine. So he started a website to help Ukrainians on the ground evacuate. But what was very interesting about his situation is he had this kind of experience already because when the pandemic first began, he created a website because he has a real interest in artificial intelligence. He created a website that would allow research around the virus to be analyzed very quickly so that researchers could figure out what was going on and analyze data and all that. And so he kind of already had the infrastructure set up in order to build this website to help Ukrainians trying to get out.
And so part of what he was doing was allowing for donations that could then get to the right people in Ukraine to directly handle people on the ground and facilitating them able to evacuate because one of the biggest problems wasn’t necessarily that people weren’t donating. It was that, how do you get this money to the people that need it and they need it now? But what I found so interesting about this story is that with every effort to help, there can also be another challenge because this involved transferring money and donating money, the site had to be extra secure. And tons of people had signed on to help, but at one point they actually got hacked. And so they had to worry about how the international community was then looking at this website and perhaps thinking that they could do something destructive with it. So he brings on a 15 year old boy, who’s basically a wizard with coding, artificial intelligence, machine learning. And so that 15 year old teenager is using his expertise to try to keep the site as secure as possible and also to stop the spread of disinformation on other social media channels.
And so I think the takeaway from this whole story is that a lot of people are doing what they can. And sometimes things seem small. Serving a hot meal, stopping the spread of disinformation by reporting a post whenever you see it on Twitter or other social media. But when you put all of these efforts together, it can save thousands and thousands of lives. And that’s sort of where I feel the pockets of beauty that I mentioned at the beginning can sometimes have a chance to shine because all of the little things that people are doing when combined can really make people feel a lot safer and like the community around the world cares for them.
James Brown: Well, excellent work Zulekha. Where can people connect with you and your work and learn more about Humankind?
Zulekha Nathoo: Well, quite a few places. I write in report stories for Humankind broadcast and digital. So you can find my work on the USA Today website. I host Humankind Connection on the USA Today channel, which is a show that kind of showcases positive news stories from around the world. And then you can find me on Twitter, TikTok and Instagram, at Zulekha Nathoo.
James Brown: Well Zulekha, thanks for joining me.
Zulekha Nathoo: Thank you so much for having me.
James Brown: If you like the show, write us a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you’re listening and do me a favor, share it with a friend. Thanks to Zulekha Nathoo for joining me. You can find her on USAtoday.com. We’d love to hear what you think about this episode. You can find out how to contact us in the description. Thanks to Alexis Gustin for editing this episode, Taylor Wilson will be back tomorrow morning with 5 Things you need to know for Monday and for all of us at USA Today, thanks for listening. I’m James Brown and as always, be well.
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George is Digismak’s reported cum editor with 13 years of experience in Journalism